Can You Shoot a 12-Year-Old?

Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Posted in category Detroit, Self-Defense

For a little over a year, Time magazine has been running “The Detroit Blog,” a special assignment blog dedicated to attempting to write about and understand Detroit. The writers are from Detroit and/or the surrounding area, and mostly, the blog is meant for curious outsiders who think Detroit is a freak show that makes for good rubbernecking entertainment.

My suggestion for undertaking this particular blog, written by Darrell Dawsey, is to read the title, scroll down to the very last sentence and read that morsel, and then scroll back up to the top to read the whole piece. Then read a story about the carjacking in question on ClickonDetroit.

The author of this interesting Time piece muses on the thought of killing a “child” who threatens to kill you by showing that he, at 5′ 10″ (hardly childlike), is carrying a gun and means business. Two kids – maybe eleven, maybe twelve, who knows – decided to carjack a woman and her mother in their driveway at the point of a gun, in Harper Woods, Michigan, a suburb of Wayne County that borders Detroit. The author notes that an acquaintance remarked, in response, “The first thing I thought is, I would’ve shot ‘em.”

First, let me clarify some details about Harper Woods. This suburb sits between Eight Mile Road (the line of demarcation) and Seven Mile Road to the south. It borders both the ritzy Grosse Pointes (to the east) and Detroit (to the south and west). For many years it was a quasi-Grosse Pointe for those uppity wannabees who could not afford the luxury of the Grosse Pointes but could manage to mortgage their future for an overpriced, brick ranch with a Harper Woods address. I grew up about eight blocks to the north and I still live and play in the same area.

Harper Woods was once remarkably expensive and semi-exclusive, back in the days prior to the credit bubble when most of us had no choice but to live within our means in terms of our housing. Now it’s a foreclosure-ridden rat drop, thanks to the mortgage-o-rama social engineering trap that created endless housing opportunities for folks with criminal records, no creditworthiness, and no sense of ownership or obligation. I have a family member who has lived there since the late 1980s – his house is now worth next to nothing, and he is stuck in that home until the cows come home.

The city has been riddled with car thefts, carjackings, home burglaries, and home invasions. The amount of foreclosed, empty homes in Harper Woods is mind-boggling – they are everywhere, littering what used to be, only 15-20 years ago, perfectly kept, brick neighborhoods. There is not a single suburb in the Detroit area where I have witnessed such an immediate and harsh ruination.

In getting back to the original theme of this story, you have a situation where some rather tall person – black or white, young or old – aggressively approaches you in your own driveway and reveals a gun. The Time author raises the questions:

How do you treat a child like an enemy combatant? How do you threaten violence, even in self-defense, against a little boy? How do you shoot a pistol-packing 12-year-old child so warped that he’s willing to blow you away just to steal a car whose dashboard he probably can’t even see over?

My response is clear-cut: in such a situation, you are looking at an immediate threat, an unfriendly, hostile foe, a gun-wielding wildman who is brazen enough to face off against you and dare you to lay down your cards. You are an individual who would not dare go on the offense against another person or their property. Yet here you are, facing a potential execution, and you cannot guess what form that action will take. If your mind starts flashing thoughts and images very quickly, you might think about the year before, when Matthew Landry was carjacked behind a Quiznos just two miles to the north and taken to an abandoned home in Detroit where he was beaten, tortured, and shot in the back of the head.

The looter who stands before you is a person with a gun. If he’s a man and you’re a woman, that’s even worse. You don’t want to guess his age, his game, his real intentions, what cards he holds, or his ability to follow through with his threats. So you do the only sane thing you can do – you shoot him. By definition, self-defense is a resistance to force, and using enough force to cause death is justified when such force is deemed necessary to prevent bodily harm or death. After all, speaking for myself, I don’t carry a .45 in my purse because my right shoulder rejoices over the added four pounds of gun-and-ammo weight.

Furthermore, I would think that no jury of my peers would convict me for defending myself from a menacing and armed potential killer who confronted me on my property. That’s another reason why I’d shoot a 5’10″ man (“kid”) with a gun who is threatening my life.

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33 Responses to Can You Shoot a 12-Year-Old?

  1. Brutus says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Perhaps the Time author should ask the US military how to treat a child like an enemy combatant. The military has been treating children of invaded nations as enemy combatants since 1861.

  2. Iluvatar says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    U need to watch Clint Eastwood’s “Gran Camino” (is that the name of the movie??? – another “senior moment” here… (gettin’ a lot of them these days!))

    Guns, butter, hills, water – Johnny get your gun!

    I am there in 7-10 years – North Georgia – FDR State Park.

    Got water, got brick, got seed – and – got gun (actually have power projection – big gun!)

    But Detroit is a pissant to Bodymore, Murderland (Balltimore, MD) – we kick your boys’ ass! Ain’t no better murder going down then here hoss! We are ground central for the end of civilization AS WE KNOW IT!

    I see it in their eyes – these folks are DEAD…

  3. liberranter says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    How do you treat a child like an enemy combatant? How do you threaten violence, even in self-defense, against a little boy? How do you shoot a pistol-packing 12-year-old child so warped that he’s willing to blow you away just to steal a car whose dashboard he probably can’t even see over?

    The moron who wrote this drivel has obviously never lived in a crime-ridden urban area where they’ve either been or have known a victim of armed robbery or assault. No one who has ever lived in a city like Detroit would even dream of asking this ridiculous rhetorical question. And of course, Karen, your response in the last three paragraphs is spot on, one that wouldn’t be necessary in a society where functioning cerebra and common sense were the norm.

  4. Karen De Coster says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Liberranter: I think the author is actually drawing out the determination that, yes, you do shoot him.

  5. Alex says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 7:14 am

    “Furthermore, no jury of my peers would convict me for defending myself from a menacing potential killer who confronted me on my property. ”

    Ah, there’s the rub, Karen. No sensible (or HONEST) human being would argue with a thing you wrote in your post. I’m just not sure how a jury of your “peers” (re: idiot fellow citizens with probably half the IQ and thought process and no sense that law is based, at loosely, on LOGIC) would interpret such actions based upon the court system, the craven attorneys, and media-driven, public-school indoctrinated jurors that would adjudge such an action within the courts in your area. If Detroit jury pool scum are like the jury pool scum in my neck of the woods, urban jurors are generally idiots with no sense of morality or proportion (I think Jesus termed it as a loss of natural affection in the end times). Therefore, the actions and motivations of this L’Enfant Terrible would be ignored as a host of leftie, hippie-dippie, extremist minority “spokespeople” would call for your head just because you did what any sentient life-form on Earth would do: protect self.

  6. Aaron Grayhek says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    First of all I love the blog. I was insane enough to go with my wife for a photography “meet up” after dark down in the greek town area on Saturday. I practiced my usual common sense like not carrying cash and so forth. The biggest issue for me is that virtually everyone, even those without malicous intent want to approach you for something: a light, money, directions, and any number of other reasons. This makes it much more difficult to determine the intent of a person that approaches you until they are already a few inches away. Look at that serial stabber up in Flint, he would approach people asking for directions and pull out a knife and start stabbing away. You almost get to the point that you want to tell people to stay at least 6′ away all the time but of course you already know that will automatically be labeled racism. On the positive side, I tried a greek pizza at Nikki’s and it was surprisingly really good.

  7. Veronica Paiz says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    What a fantastic waste of time and behaving like a rooster: debating whether or not one would or should shoot a 12-year old.

    You very well may have grown up 8 blocks north of here, but remember: you grew up 8 blocks north of here!  Harper Woods is NOT a rat drop. And, it would certainly benefit you to know *some* sense of history. This city was never a place of “wannabe” Grosse Pointers, and the people that live(d) here were never interested in A great deal of the housing was created post-World War II. Until the last 5 – 10 years, this has been a city of original home-owners. Our neighbors have lived here since the early 1950s — when they moved into the third home on the block. It’s been a family town, with access to decent education, great parks, and wonderful city services for the taxes paid. It’s offered homeowners convenience — to work in Detroit and nearby extraordinary medical facilities. This *was* the ‘burbs 40 years ago. So, as our original owners and retirees have passed or moved into senior care facilities, their homes were sold (during the “Bubble”) to many people hoping for a better life for their kids or, in the case of my husband and I, a nice small community close to work at the hospital. Job losses have forced many into foreclosure. No one was ever interested in mortgaging “their future for an overpriced, brick ranch with a Harper Woods address.” You try living in a city with two borders on Detroit, one of which borders a square-mile with the highest per capita crime rate in the country. Tell me how you handle it.

  8. Susan Uhl says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    As someone who grew up in Detroit just west of Harper Woods and someone who has lived in Harper Woods for the last 17+ years, I read this article with a great deal of personal interest. While Harper Woods has experienced its own fair share of crime, particularly in the last couple of years in this latest economic downturn, I wonder if my city is experiencing anything more or less drastic than any other city in the state. I receive weekly Crime Alerts from the City of Troy and I note several burglaries, auto thefts, thefts from vehicles, etc. happening in that community as well. While other cities try to keep their crime statistics hidden, Harper Woods makes it a practice to notify its residents (via the NIXLE service) of crimes that happen in our community. This service is being provided to us so that we can be aware of what is happening in our city because there are many residents who do care and are taking an active roll in trying to keep this a family friendly community.

    Your depiction of Harper Woods as a “foreclosure ridden rat-drop” is nothing more than rhetoric by someone who hasn’t bothered to take the time to actually get to know the people who live here. Where is your blog about the people who show up at council meetings month after month because they are interested in what’s happening in our city and care about where its headed? Where is your blog about the 80+ people who came out on a rainy Saturday a few weeks ago to pick up trash and clean up Kelly Road? If you really want to know about the heart and soul of this city, come out and talk to the people who actually live here. Come to one of our council meetings and actually meet the people who still live here and still believe that this city has something to offer. Until then, please keep your opinions to yourself. Our city does have its fair share of problems and the last thing we need is some uninformed outsider painting our town with some broad brush strokes of being lost and beyond redemption.

  9. Karen De Coster says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Susan, get some thicker skin. I’m not a fucking outsider – I live minutes from Harper Woods, I have all my life (8 blocks north), and I know the area well. What people do there that is good (the good folks) does not take away from what has happened in the recent past (thanks to the bad folks). I feel safer in Detroit than Harper Woods. Tell me I know nothing about this area: http://www.lewrockwell.com/decoster/decoster175.html I don’t just drive through it on the way to work – I belong to community groups, talk to other locals with other points of view, live there, and explore every inch of what I write about, by bike, with camera, etc. And I observe constantly and write. All you do is attend stupid meetings and tell people like me I don’t know what I am talking about. So cut the crap with your “you don’t know until you talk to me” rhetoric.

    I do know.

  10. Karen De Coster says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Veronica – you must be Susan’s friend. I STILL live here, fool. Still. Always. Comprehend?

  11. Roger says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    You feel safer in Detroit than Harper Woods?????????

    You were begining to make some sense until that remark. If you really do feel that way it says a lot about your overall intelligence. Detroit experiences dozens and sometimes hundreds of violent crimes PER DAY, in contrast Harper Woods may experience (at the most) about a dozen violent crimes in an entire year.

    If you are the victim of a crime you will get police response in about 2 minutes (half the time of SCS ) the same holds true if you were to need an ambulance. Also in Harper Woods you get top notch services like snow plowing and leaf pickup, both of which you do not get in SCS. By the way you are 12 blocks north of Harper Woods not 8.

  12. Karen De Coster says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Roger – what a whiner. What kind of people use this: “?????????????” I hate that juvenile crap. You “offended” HW folks can go take a flyin’ you-know-what. Admit it: HW is no longer the quasi-Grosse Pointe it used to be. Go ahead, admit that it has changed immensely.

  13. Roger says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    It never was quasi Grosse Pointe, maybe that was your perception but hardly the truth. I never said that it has not “changed immensely”, it absolutely has, but so has the whole area including your street. Your comment about being safer in Detroit is absurd, if you want I will gladly drop you off on a random corner in Detroit and let you walk around a bit and then see if you wouldnt feel safer in Harper Woods. And I am not whining I am just setting the record straight.

  14. Karen De Coster says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Roger, read my follow-up blog on this: http://karendecoster.com/on-killing-a-12-year-old-and-harper-woods.html

    Then read about what I do in the city, and have been doing for years: http://www.lewrockwell.com/decoster/decoster175.html

    I suggest you do some research on a writer before you attack her as if you have knowledgeable background info. You are uninformed about me. If you read just the article above, and nothing else, you’ll know I am always randomly on street corners in Detroit. On a bicycle. Nothing you can show me, believe me. You have not done nearly what I have done. Adventure is good for the soul, Roger.

  15. Iluvatar says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Karen???

    I don’t understand why you frequently interpret disagreement w/ such a defensive position.

    It concerns me greatly…

    Hey? Look, I can not speak to who is “right” & who is “wrong” here in the subject posts above.

    There are probably aspects of “right” in both points of view?

    I did NOT interpret these posts as an ATTACK upon you – just an added point of view that would allow an ensuing discussion to take place (which adds readership via posters btw).

    Not ALL these POV’s are going to be in agreement – and that allows healthy debate.

    Certainly, you have a well developed position in this regard – of which dissenting posters admit an expansion of your arguments to further shed light on the topic.

    But what is gained by burning these folks into the ground?

    This ends it by people who might have been able to defend their position; and for you to defend your position.

    I am never comfortable dumping on a poster as I am NOT all-knowing (never will be – and there is NOTHING wrong with that!!! I AM an expert on NOTHING!!!). Life is about getting SMARTER!

    Can’t do that w/o listening!

    Sorry, that is the philosopher Bertrand Russel, talking through me here (“Why I am not a Christian”)

    But I do have to say: YOU SCARE ME DUDE!

    Every time I post a comment – I sweat BULLETS the next day thinking about how I might get flamed…

    Your Blog is an extremely valuable pubic service (correct diets, medicine, revealing the tyranny of the Fed Gov, etc…). Of that, there is NO DOUBT!!

    And I congratulate you on this service that you most OBVIOUSLY provide.

    But by the same token, you still scare me to death!

    Should you not post this – I’ll understand…

  16. LibertyVini says:

    October 13th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Michigan is a classic failed state. Maybe people will begin to understand the implications of that fact. In relation to the malignant economic climate there, the delegation of self-defense to government that leads to state failure, and our military policy toward external failed states,maybe they will begin to reclaim their universal human rights, among them the right to life, to liberty, to property, and to self-defense. 

  17. Karen De Coster says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 7:32 am

    You know folks (those commenters from Harper Woods who passed around emails), get over my two paragraphs about “your” city. The carjacking in question happened there, and that is the focus of this post. Period. My post is not a 10,000-word expose on crime in Detroit, the metro area, or Michigan, or anything else. It is about the conundrum faced by a person who encounters a kid carjacker, as posed by a writer in Time. The fact that you folks have used fake email addresses and/or blocked your email, makes a statement. Therefore don’t try to post on this blog again. They won’t get through. You claim to want “debate” (I don’t have time to “debate” people all day long) but then don’t reveal who you are, and then you lie about or block your email.

    To Vivian Sawicki, who tried to post about worshipping her local government who will ‘take care of her’:

    Turn off Oprah, or better yet, go post on her website. Tell Matt Landry of Eastpointe that one can “safely” predict that a criminal only wants your “stuff” and nothing else. Oh darn, you can’t tell him because he’s dead (executed/tortured), along with thousands of other victims of crimes who, like you, either didn’t know how to defend themselves, or they were brainwashed into believing some magical power will ‘convince’ the thug to apologize and walk away from the crime. Your spewing garbage about government schools and supporting the government police – it’s all undefined, typical female fluff. You worship government everywhere you go and depend upon a bunch of self-empowered, bureaucrats to teach your kids, protect you, run your life, and make your life whole.

    People like you are exactly why we have an oppressive government, a destroyed economy, and a criminal society run amok. You worship the state that makes you a slave, and worse yet, you approve and sanction it every day with your acquiescence and perpetual worship.

    If some 5′ 10″ 15-year-old male pulls a gun on me in my own driveway lady, damn right he’s going to die. Right there where he stands. Sad? No. Only a trained slave would spew such emotive B.S. I pity you and your tiny brain.

  18. Splash Daddy says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 8:33 am

    “People like you are exactly why we have an oppressive government, a destroyed economy, and a criminal society run amok. You worship the state that makes you a slave, and worse yet, you approve and sanction it every day with your acquiescence and perpetual worship.”…Only a trained slave would spew such emotive B.S.”

    Very well put summation of the mindset of what I believe is now a critical mass of Americans. It is why Americans – both left and right – seem oblivious to the totalitarian state being constructed. That there should be any debate at all over how to respond to an armed aggressor is evidence that we are not what we once were. America has passed the point of no return.

  19. GunRights4US says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    I realize you’re the blog owner, but you said “fuck” and I feel free to do likewise.

    Fuck yeah I’d shoot the 12 year old! Fuck the gooberment and those who worship it! And fuck all these thin skinned whiners tracking up the carpet on this awesome blog!
    (Feel free to stop by my place and say fuck there as well) Regards.

  20. Karen De Coster says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    “Calling me to the carpet” Roger? LoL. You couldn’t call a carpetbug to the carpet. Your comments are incoherent (wickedly poor grammar) and undecipherable. To use your own tired & undefined cliche, you give blog commenters “a bad name.” Try writing in real words with definitions instead of stupid cliches with zero definition. Who the hell do you think you are? You won’t dare come onto my property posting your incessant lowbrow personal attacks, you belligerent-obsessive moron.

  21. M. Terry says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    One thing I get from some of these responses to Karen’s post is that some of the residents of the area in which this crime occurred have problems with reading and comprehension. And, may be thin skinned, as Karen mentioned.

    It doesn’t take much research to learn where Karen lives. She’s written about her hometown -Detroit – many times.

    The post is about how one responds to a thug with a gun. Certainly many neighborhoods in the country are depressed, and crime levels may be rising in some areas. If someone points out the fact that crimes like home invasions have increased in a neighborhood near me, I don’t take it personally.

    The crux is, what does one do when confronted by an armed thug? Does one worry over the size of the thug? It’s pretty clear that almost anyone who flashes a gun has the ability to use it to obtain through violence what they want. I’m prepared to fight back.

    Jeff Cooper appropriately summed it up here: “One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure—and in some cases I have—that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.”

    If a “boy” points a gun at me, he is a thug, and I will respond with much violence. I’m most likely a much better shot than he is.

    In the incident described at The Detroit Blog, it appears that the women victims were in condition white, totally unaware of the potential for violence. While this may be due to the size of the criminals and their location, had this happened in Arizona or another gun-friendly state, the criminals wouldn’t have acted as cavalier as they did in this carjacking.

    I remember an incident where a man driving home from work in Phoenix stopped at a traffic signal, and a goblin stuck a .357 to his head and instructed him to leave the vehicle. Upon opening the door, the driver shot the attacker in the femur and drove away leaving him bleeding on the street.

    If someone points a gun at you and demands you follow instructions, you can rely on one of these: http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/02/man-trap.html or one of these: http://www.rc-trucks.org/colt-45.htm

    Take a wild guess at which one I’ll choose.

    Hey, Iluvatar – if memory serves, the name of the Eastwood movie was Gran Torino.

  22. Karen De Coster says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Mark, amazingly, the theme of the article (for those from Harper Woods) went from “when do you shoot and why” to “how dare you say things about OUR city!” Again: perpetually offended people. This happened in Harper Woods, so I gave two paragraphs of background. If it happened in any other local suburb, I would have added background on that as well.

    But remember, people are taught to submit to/follow instructions, and take your chances. Submitting to government rule….submitting to criminals……do I repeat myself? That is most of the masses as we know them.

  23. M. Terry says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    It’s the tired old busybody routine of finding something, ANYTHING, to be “offended” about.

    If the only complaint these folks have is to be “offended, truly offended” by two paragraphs regarding background, they are truly blessed.

    Wish the only thing I had to be concerned about was someone “offending” me by writing two paragraphs about the condition or safety of my neighborhood.

    Yeah, we know those people…

  24. Guy S says:

    October 14th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Your assessment of the brazen act of thuggery, as reported in the Detroit Bloggeers article was spot on.  Unfortunately, it matters not if the thug is 10,18, 25, or 55, if he is attempting to use any manner of force up to and including firearms, he is subject to (in my not so humble opinion) an equal or greater amount of force being applied to him, in order to put a quick and finial end to the threat at hand.  If that means I have to shoot him, than so be it.

    And before any bleeding hearts care to step in and hash my mellow, let me offer a bit of personal experience as an example:

    About 25 years ago, I managed a pizzeria in the Dallas-Ft Worth Metroplex.  On one particular Sunday or Monday night (one of our slower evenings), just as we were about to close, a young male entered the store brandishing a handgun (the barral of said gun was sticking out of a paper bag). He went around the counter and proceeded to open the cash register. I was at the ovens, cleaning same, and time literally stood still.  He shouted for us (the gal behind the salad bar/pizza prep area and me) to get down on the floor.  I swear I stood there for what seemed to be half a minute or so. I was looking at the exposed barral of the gun (pointed at me) debating whether I should rush him or not.  It looked to be too small to be a “45″, but on the other hand it appeared to be somewhat larger than a “.22″.  Needless to say, I went for the floor.  He grabbed the cash and made a hasty exit.

    I learned two things that night.  One was to NEVER leave your own handgun at home (Which happened that night for some unknown reason. Normally, every night I had it with me under the counter.)  Two, had it been there, I would have used it with no hesitation what so ever.   (I should also add, that I am a 20 year Navy vet, and have at least some passing experience with firearms.)   

    The point is, my feelings about “taking a life” are, when an individual is so intent on using force to achieve their dishonorable ends, they become a threat, first and foremost, with any thought of them having any shred of humanity, banished from my mind.   To think any better of your attacker, is to run the risk of them figuratively and literally “beating you to the punch”.

  25. Street Smart says:

    October 15th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    When put in a situation like described you do a quick size-up but first and foremost you eliminate the immidiate threat. If you have now escape to safety, you fear for your “own” life and are left with no other option, you take action. Me, I would have no hesitation with putting two in his chest and one in his head then hold the other punks at point until LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) arrived. The punk already set the playing field by brandishing his weapon, now you must decide and fast. In this day and age, there are plenty of video cameras on mobile phones, hell, I would not be surprised if the video hit youtube before the call to 9-1-1 was placed. This can and probably has happened in Anytown, USA. My open-carry sidearm has HydraShok rounds to ensure I will be home for dinner. Article of interest about self-defense loads: http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm ********

  26. A.W. Duffy says:

    October 15th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Karen, you do know how to stir up the sensitive crowd that takes themselves too seriously don’t you ? Instead of faulting Karen for her straight forward and true assessment of the topic, you should all be learning something from her words. Karen, trying to talk to some of these num-nuts about anything such as this is a waste of time. Oh poor them, so offended. You soft, government, hero, child worshipping types ! I’d rather have Karen backing up my 6 than any of your over paid tax parasite types you so openly worship. Thanks again K for laying it out there again.

  27. Iluvatar says:

    October 15th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    OK – one more try at why we have the behavior that we have in our society (I am going to be repeating myself about 10 times here – my next step is to NOT be lazy and just give you links – but that takes time I do not have…)

    I don’t have time for debate EITHER!

    If you are wondering why we have the society that we have – then I would point you back to FDR, or reach back a bit further when our “hero” “Honest Abe” Lincoln destroyed states’ rights. Dude was the biggest liar on this planet (“we need to move forward from old thinking” -DUDE and YOU HAVE the answer???).

    Sound familiar? Wasn’t that “Obama’s ‘Change’”?

    Anyway.

    I want to quote Karen & Splash Daddy
    here:

    “People like you are exactly why we have an oppressive government, a destroyed economy, and a criminal society run amok. You worship the state that makes you a slave, and worse yet, you approve and sanction it every day with your acquiescence and perpetual worship.”…Only a trained slave would spew such emotive B.S.”

    Well there you have it.

    Said this over 10 times before.

    The policies invoked by our “hero” FDR in the `30′s are killing us today – socialisms fellas!

    I heard a statement (read it actually) that said that a socialism CAN ONLY EXIST upon the productive component of society – THAT’S IT! Sure kicks Marx in the teeth (my! how appropriate!)

    But fellas, you must realize how mind-numbing these socialist policies are!!!

    You must realize how the down-trodden become savages!

    You must realize how brain-dead the middle class becomes as the upper class is ALLOWED to consolidate its power!!

    And trust me one this one fellas – it is ALL about POWER! I lived in mid-town Baltimore in the late `80′s – I HAVE SEEN the dead eyes – these are people w/o HOPE!

    Am I bleeding my heart out about them? Hell no, I want them dead!

    Do I want the problem solved?

    Hell yea, MAN!!!

    What I am bleeding my heart out about is how we got here in the G-D’d 1st place!

    And it has been ABOUT SOCIALISM – DUH!!!!!

    Sound familiar?

    It is the G-D’d quote above!!

    Folks we are not the people that formed the Magna Carta in England – @ that point in time the Celts had been overrun by the Angles, Saxons, and another tribe. But they had had enough of the King’s taxes. THEY STOOD UP TO THE KING!!

    And they demanded the end of tyranny (via taxes). THEY GOT IT (w/ a huge loss of life)!!

    We did this AGAIN in 1776!

    We stood up to tyranny!

    We were “REAL” back then – we wanted to take care of our own – WE wanted LOCAL control w/o interference – we wanted to conduct our own affairs (we have a name for this – INDEPENDENCE!!!!). ALL we wanted the Fed Gov to do for us was to protect us from foreign invasion by maintaining a DEFENSIVE army (did you get/hear that? Duh, why are we in Pakistan???).

    But we wanted our independence!

    Do YOU FEEL THAT ENERGY!!!???

    It means that WE have CONTROL!

    Over our society, over our Governement!

    WE have the power to CHANGE THAT!

    UNTIL we GET THIS, we won’t be able to take over the Government NOR can we FIX society.

    And who does it?

    In F Hayek’s words – a socialism can easily be described by a people, upon recognizing a problem, has a knee-jerk reaction – what’s Government gonna do about it? DUDE?? That is the LAST place you want to go!

    You fix the shiite @ home!

    After watching Ridley Scott’s movie “Robin Hood” over 20 times (Luv that film!), I was stunned when Crowe (as Robin) repeated what I have said at least 5 times here on this blog –
    You build a great society FROM THE GROUND UP – 1 community at a time.

    YOU NEVER LOOK TO GOVERNMENT for your solutions.

    They are the LAST place you look.

    So “stand up children – life goes on & on” – Crack The Sky “Safety in Numbers” – but that’s a repeat as well…

    And SO! Will you all please re-take CONTROL (I will have a real difficult time running for president in 2012 o/w – grin!)

    ——————————- SNIP HERE DO NOT POST BELOW————–

    Karen, I know you may be pissed at me – but this post is dead serious, thanks for NOT posting the last post. Good wishes. Please hang in there…
    Talk later perhaps

  28. clark says:

    October 16th, 2010 at 2:37 am

    “You build a great society FROM THE GROUND UP – 1 community at a time.”

    Seems like “you” don’t build a great society, a great society consists of a concentration of individuals and families who can think, are productive, and are free.

    So very few people today can truly think, or even desire to, let alone desire to be free.

    “Over our society, over our Governement!”

    No,… over our selves, not society, otherwise it’s just more of the same.
    Isn’t the root of all busy bodies a desire to have control over society and goberment? When busy bodies feel like they control society and goberment that’s when and why they whorship goberment, because goberment seems to be their arm.

    Just a guess.

    Most people seem to be using the stereo type of a low class poverty stricken person as an attacker. I’ve read some say the attack is often from someone who is better dressed than you are. It’s one thing to not hesitate with a dirty rag wearing low life, I imagine it’s a bit of an adjustment to be the same towards someone who is well dressed and well groomed and such, that’s a shock in and of itself, one that can increase hesitation,… for some of us anyway.

    Conditioning is hard to overcome.

  29. Judy says:

    October 16th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Anybody that threatens me or my family and shows a weapon, I’ll shoot. I am guaranteed by the constitution to be able to defend myself. Someone enters my property and threatens, they should be ready to accept the consequences. I’m female, 50+, 5’3″ & have some physical impairment. I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot. A gun is the only way for me to level the field with anyone. I don’t mind read to know how “young” they are. Of course, they choose me as an easy target because of who I am. The victim becomes the agressor, prosecuted & put on trial far too often when they “win” in this scenero.

  30. Harry Statel says:

    October 16th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    It’s great to read your work. If you get to Tennessee, let me know and I’ll make you homemade biscuits, gravy, country ham and we can talk guns.

    My .45 is a CZ. Those Czechs make beautiful, functional firearms. And a Makarov 9×18 makes a good back-up gun for ankle holsters.

    All the best,
    Harry Statel

  31. Iluvatar says:

    October 18th, 2010 at 1:50 am

    Damn! just can’t shut up can I?

    @clark: your words (I did not understood all of them – but!):

    “Seems like “you” don’t build a great society, a great society consists of a concentration of individuals and families who can think, are productive, and are free.”

    YES!!!

    WE take care of our own, 1 local society at a time!

    No, “I” don’t build a great society – “WE” DO!!!!

    That is what is SO wrong about LBJ/FDR in building a “GREAT SOCIETY”.

    That’s NOT how IT HAPPENS!

    Great Societys occur by the GREATNESS of their members – who are ALWAYS local to you!

    Same as it was when we were an extremely distributed population.

    I am NOT saying that I don’t want the GREAT SOCIETY of LBJ – but – it MUST HAPPEN another WAY!!!

    It can not happen via a central (or for that matter, a state) government.

    We have demonstrated that this shiite DON’T WORK, fellas!

    Hey? Have you ever seen what happens when a bloke loses his job in your `hood???

    If he was a well-meaning man trying to take care of his wife and his kids – the neighborhood TOOK ACTION!

    `Cause he was trying to get his ass back on line – @ ANY COST (he would mow your lawns fer Christ’s sake!@).

    Now what happens when it is the “town drunkard”??? How many of the neighborhood (WHO KNOW HIM) help that sucker out?

    Answer: NOT TOO MANY!

    And that fellas, is how WELFARE REALLY works out @ the local level – how can the Federal Government KNOW HOW TO DO THIS EFFICIENTLY???

    Answer: THEY CAN NOT!!!

    THat’s HOW we (re-) build our societies – FROM THE GROUND UP!

    We take care of OWN!

    WE take care of how WE want to live!

    We take of OUR lives (back!)!

    We gain realization of many of the ills that have POISENED our society (media, TV,l cable, the tech toys of cell phones and other digital distractions – thank-you Mark Sisson!).

    Until we do that, and become non-bovine idiots and start thinking for OURSELVES (Karen – I think you call them sheeple – I prefer the bovine vs. the ovine term – works better for me – MOO!),we can NOT GET THERE!

    WE MUST START THINKING FOR OURSELVES!

    QUESTION EVERYTHING!

    Over the next 8 months, I hope to develop 2 relevant pieces:

    A) a criticism of socialism and its effects upon our human population, &

    B) a better understanding of how our Fed Gov manages money (& the debt) – I need to learn dual-entry accounting however, but I am a veracious learner…

    In the mean time, buy a book by Albert Camus, or by Kant – and become AWARE!!

    peace, brothers

    PS: ignore the damn typos…

    But most of all – BECOME AWARE! (or read the secret Gospel Of Saint Thomas from the Nag Hammadi Gospels – it is now on the web – check out paragraph 85-88).

    Jesus was as hard core as it comes – DUDE!

  32. cl says:

    October 18th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    I’ve heard second hand of several office type girls responding to this article by saying, without hesitation, they would shoot to kill the thugs. Thing is, they don’t own a gun, don’t or are not allowed by state law to carry one, and have never even fired one.

    Easy pickings, they are.

    A wishing and a hoping they don’t get to take the ride from behind the Quizno’s like the guy did, because as we all know, that sort of thing only happens to other people in “those” other kinds of towns, and theirs isn’t, “that” kind of town. Of course. And things will never ever change.

    On the plus side, those office workers did at least express an interest in learning to shoot.

  33. Firehand says:

    October 27th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Just happened here in Oklahoma:
    “The 31-year old housewife who shot and killed one teenage intruder and wounded another last week in Midwest City will not face any charges. That’s because Oklahoma County district attorney David Prater thinks the actions taken by Amanda Walworth were justified—she had every right to open fire on the two teenage boys after they kicked in the back door to her home.”

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